222 Limp-Wristed Cowards
Justin Higgins — Thu, 2007-12-13 22:34
I don't give a damn if you think it's cruel, waterboarding doesn't physically injure the person, and it's effective. I don't give a damn if you think we are "above that," because we're dealing with terrorists known for beheadings, rapes, and even cutting off extremities and shoving them down our soldiers' throats. I say waterboarding is too humane. Stop the ACLU has the story about our Congress of Cowardice:
Defying a White House veto threat, the U.S. House of Representatives voted on Thursday to outlaw harsh interrogation methods, such as simulated drowning, that the CIA has used against suspected terrorists.
On a largely party line vote of 222-199, the Democratic-led House approved a measure to require intelligence agents to comply with the Army Field Manual, which bans torture in compliance with the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners of war.
The measure, part of a sweeping intelligence bill, passed amid a congressional probe into the recent disclosure that the CIA destroyed videotapes of al Qaeda suspects undergoing waterboarding, a simulated drowning.
Many countries, U.S. lawmakers and human rights groups have accused the United States of torturing terror suspects since the September 11 attacks.
Above and to the right, I've included a graphic that explains waterboarding. Congress is once again trying to shackle the hands of the United States military, and the United States intelligence-gathering machine. Waterboarding, wiretapping, and black sites in Europe all help us win the war, so suck it up, realize we're in a fight for our lives, and get some courage.
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One day passes, and no answers from Justin
me.at.bra.in (not verified) — Sun, 2007-12-16 14:37Still waiting, Justin... Could I be right about your cowardice?
Questions for the coward
me.at.bra.in (not verified) — Sat, 2007-12-15 13:46Explain something to us, Justin.
Who did Mohamed Farag Ahmad Bashmilah behead?
Who did he rape?
Whose extremities did he cut off?
Are you comfortable with the US abducting and torturing innocent people, just to keep your whiny little ass "safe"?
We'll wait, Justin.
You'll never have the courage to answer my questions.
It's likely you'll never even grow enough of a spine to acknowledge that they were asked.
That's what being a moral coward does to you, Justin. It makes you a coward in all aspects.
Scared little boy
me.at.bra.in (not verified) — Fri, 2007-12-14 23:26You've abandoned all pretense at being a moral individual, Justin. You are so pants-peeingly terrified that you are willing to abandon every moral principle your parents taught you (if any) just to chase the will-o-the-wisp of absolute security.
You are lying to your readers. Waterboarding can indeed inflict physical harm, and can even kill. Those who actually interrogate enemy prisoners know, and have said publicly, that torture is ineffective.
You're nothing but a scared, ignorant little boy, Justin. Anyone who deals with you should treat you as such.
Winning?
looneyontheleft — Fri, 2007-12-14 01:09I don't know... How much does some Afghan or some Iraqi who was defending his country really know about anything? This ain't a James Bond movie. These aren't SPECTRE agents who are privy to what Blofield has planned and you can get it out of them but good old American Know-How.
Torturing should be kept hush-hush and secret, or done at the hands of allies, with a CIA agent observing and taking notes. That's the way America did it for decades and that's the way it needs to go back to doing it.
Shouldn't we be more worried about the OPEC countries slowly but surly getting rid of the dollar when they trade and sell oil? Its gonna' suck when gas is 10.00 a gallon and t-shirts at wal-mart will be $8.00 per shirt VS 3 for $5.00.
I got dozens more issues that are more important than all this boogie-man shit, but I know this isn't the place to discuss that.
Bring on more Waterboarding and Hillary History lessons!
Justin
socketplug — Thu, 2007-12-13 23:57And you lose your values in the process. With that you have just justified September 11. Bin Laden is also doing "what [he has] to do to win". The deaths on September 11 were the "collateral damage" to Bin Laden as the innocent Iraqi lives were the "collateral damage" to the coalition of the willing during the shock and awe campaign (and continuing occupation). (Oh, and Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with September 11, its a comparison of how collateral damage like freedom fighter and terrorist are defined and used.)
From Holding the Bully's Coat by Linda McQuaig, excerpts from pages 210 - 219 (typos mine):
When provoked, a gentleman didn't have to spend a lot of time in previous centuries thinking through the problem of how to respond. If his honour had been offended - if say, someone had questioned his integrity, or the virtue of his betrothed, or the extent of his bravery on the battlefield - he knew he had little choice but to challenge the offender to a duel. ... After all, humans have natural aggressive instincts, so what could be more natural than that two men, locked into an apparently irresolvable conflict, would resort to personal violence? ... Looking back, the duel seems hopelessly quaint and primitive, an idea long ago shelved. It's not that humans have evolved so that petty insults no longer sting us or provoke our anger. It's just that, in the modern world, we've rejected the format of the duel as a way to resolve our disputes. ... But our mainstream culture has fully adapted to solving disputes through the legal system. ... By giving up the right to protect ourselves through violence, we achieve something even more precious - the right to live our lives free of violence. ... For instance, a campaign could set the interim goal of pushing national governments to pass laws banning participation in the arms trade, just as the anti-slavery movement focused on banning the slave trade as an interim step to the ultimate goal of banning the entire institution of slavery.
There is more I wanted to include, such as the discussion of war as an institution, but I'm done typing for the night (and who's gonna read a huge long post?). I leave with this quote from the Buddha I just saw on PBS, "if you truly loved yourself, you would never harm another".
Socket
Justin Higgins — Thu, 2007-12-13 23:13First off, in war, that instruction is a little antiquated. I wouldn't want bombed but I think the bastards that brought down the World Trade Center towers and anyone that supports them deserves it. Would I want our guys waterboarded? Hell no, I don't want them even captured. Worse things are happening to our soldiers though, as I make clear in the post. Terrorists carry no flag and wear no uniform, so they're not subject to the protections of international law. We do what we have to do to win, period.
Do Unto Others
socketplug — Thu, 2007-12-13 23:00Justin,
Does this mean that if an American solider is captured you wouldn't mind if the capturing army tortured the soldier with techniques including waterboarding?
Luke 6:31 (NIV) Do to others as you would have them do to you.